Swimmers all feed differently and all prepare themselves in different ways regardless of whether they are going for the record or trying to achieve a personal dream. Of the 500+ crossings I have escorted none are type cast. Often even repeat swimmers have changed their style each time they make another attempt.
All the record swimmers I have taken have made an attempt before they have broken the record. The 4 you mentioned are just the tip of the iceberg. Before Petar we had Christoph break the record with his 7 hour 3 minute swim — It’s a long list and there is a lot of very good swimmers out there if only the newbee’s would listen to them instead of re-inventing the wheel and failing to comprehend just how different the Channel is.
Even for the record attempts it’s a dream and a personal passion.
First time round most swimmers are not aware of what they are up against. There is no substitute for the Channel swim, you can train and prepare but you will not understand it until you have tried it. When swimmers ask how they should train the answer is by swimming it and finding out first hand. “Get the best experiance you can first” is always the answer to any extreme adventure.
That’s why formula 1 drivers and the like have practice days on each circuit they race.
The big problem with a Channel swim is keeping the positive thoughts in your head. The answer is not to set any per requisites – no predicted times or conditions – take what is thrown at you – give it all you have got all of the time – push the limit and have faith in yourself.
To answer your question Duncan;
Channel swim record attempts for the England / France crossing were always made at the bottom of the Neap tides when there was no wind and very little tide. They were a singular effort by the swimmer with safety cover and a direction from the pilot.
When you take that approach then the results will always be close as the body is a machine that can only be fine tuned to within a limit set by the human shell. Open water circuit racing and Olympic events are a good example of how completing on a fairly level playing field produces some very close finishes. Change the conditions and plan the start times and you get another set of answers personally tailored to the swimmer – be it a record attempt, or a very long swim, or something in between.
Channel swimming is unique as it takes a sport – swimming – that is usually a personal performance sport and adds an extra parameter of working with someone you have to have faith in while taking into consideration the elements. It’s a partnership that produces success however long it takes to complete it.
The Channel is that little bit further than the 25 km races and usually a lot further than any training swims. It’s cold water that has waves and it’s not got a tiled bottom or lane markers.
The problem is that not many swimmers want to accept the extra parameter and share the success with anyone. They want to believe and keep it as a personal thing.
It’s not only swimming that does this. There are a lot of cases where team work and outside influences contribute to success but are “overlooked”.
To be successful first the sports person has to acknowledge that they need a team to overcome the “other influences”. Those that make the grade usually know this but tend to keep it a secret as it gives them the edge and the path to glory.
Approximately double the number of people have climbed Everest — in half the time — compared with the results for successful solo Channel swims.
A lot of the Everest information is on
www.everesthistory.com
www.everestnews.com
The count only goes up to the end of 2004 but it was then —
2249 successful summits
186 deaths – 120 missing bodies
First successful accent was on 29th May 1953 by Sir Edmond Hillary
Fastest climb from base camp to summit 16 hours 56 mins.
No percentage or numbers for failed climbs that I can find.
Pilot’s success rates of 75% plus are for both Solo & relay crossings, as are the overall success rates of organisations.
The solo success rate with some pilots is generally around the 65% mark.
When looking at success rates you also need to look at the number of swims and the length of time the pilots have been working but —
This should not be used as a measure as the pilot has no control over the quality of the swimmers who book a swim, just what they can do with whom they have booked once they are on the water.
It is however improving – or was until the last couple of years.
The CS&PF success rate has been over 80% for some years (see www.channelswimming.net — results page and the swimmers chat site archives for year by year % as well as the results breakdown). It has dropped back to the low 70%’s for the last couple of years.
Defining what are the contributory factors to the increase in success is a matter for debate. Just about everything involved with a Channel swim has changed in the past 20 years, and is still changing.
There is a lot of navigation and safety equipment now that the pilots can choose to fit. We have chart plotters, GPS, Radar, AIS, computers, navigation programs, TV, mobile internet and now the Iphone, etc, etc — but most of these are increasing the safety element rather than the success rate, although they do help when you are chasing records.
Unfortunately they have not developed a computer program for “Gut feeling” yet and the Channel is very unpredictable. You pay your pilot for that.
There is a much better understanding of the tides and the weather and the modern equipment does allow other boat crews to see what everyone is doing in real time.
The escort boats are much better now (well most of them) and the big element is the improvement in the support crews – and the back-up from the pilots and boat crews.
Risk assessments and improvements in the rules and regulations seem to be making people more aware of how hard the event is. Most of all it requires them to think things through and find answers.
By far the biggest contributory factor in my estimation is the advancement of feeding – it is also seems to be one of the most neglected as far as the swimmers preparation is concerned.
Next is the training, it’s organisation, the passing on of techniques and methods and the dedication of the backup / trainer groups that seem to be willing to give time and experiance wherever they are around the globe.
Training and opinion is now passed around the world at the touch of a finger on a keyboard. Yes you can use the delete key but most of it has something worth thinking about, even if it’s only to dispute it and express an alternative.
Open water swimming is developing in leaps and bounds with a world following. This seems to help to promote awareness and better preparation. There is however a problem with a small element of “fast tracking” – if this could be overcome and a little more experiance gained before some swimmers walk down the beach then the success rate could be higher.
With the sport opening up and travel being much easier (providing the air and train crews are not striking) and we are getting more and more people making attempts every year.
We already have 208 crossings booked through the CS&PF for the 2010 season.
I think it is hard to put one item down as the main factor. You have to put it all into the pot – add a bit of ego and a lot of stubbornness, plus tunnel vision and dedication in a stressful world to source a result and answer to your questions Steve.
Mike O
—– Original Message —–
From: Steven Munatones
To: Claudia.Markwardt@gmx.de
Cc: channel_swimmers@googlegroups.com ; lecummins@gmail.com ; 483245a@cosford.raf.mod.uk
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:05 PM
Subject: [Channel Group] Why are English Channel swimmers so successful in modern times?
Claudia,
What are the comparative success rates of Mt. Everest vs. the English
Channel? Do you have an approximate success rate percentage for each
adventure?
I understand the success rate of modern-day one-way swimmers with certain
English Channel pilots is over 70%. This is a remarkable improvement
compared to the oft-reported percentage of 1 out of 6 (16%) as was widely
reported in the 20th century (and an even lower percentage in the 19th
century).
What are the reason for this significant improvement from 16% to over 70%?
Is it due to improved swimmer preparation, motivation and dedication to
training? Is it due to improvement in swimming technique (and/or feedings
timing and content)? Is it due to the global expansion of the middle-class
population that enables a larger number of individuals to spend their
leisure time training?
Or is it due to enhanced pilot experience and expertise? What about the
availability of modern-day seafaring technology (e.g., GPS and micro-weather
forecasting)? Or perhaps it is due to a cumulative analyses of previously
failed swims?
Or, more fundamentally, the availability of modern transportation such a jet
transportation that enables people to travel more easily and quickly than
before? Or the availability of Internet/mobile communications that allows
for an easier sharing of information on a timely global basis?
Or is it, just good ol’ fashion luck?
Or, perhaps, a combination of all these factors?
What are the answers? I would love to know.
Steven, a non-English Channel swimmer
—–Original Message—–
From: channel_swimmers@googlegroups.com
[mailto:channel_swimmers@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Claudia Markwardt
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 11:19 AM
To: lecummins@gmail.com; 483245a@cosford.raf.mod.uk
Cc: channel_swimmers@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Channel Group] Re: Cost of Pilots
Yes, the Everest. And it’s told that less people succeeded in
Channelswimming than in Everst-climbing, so the Channel and what the pilots
do is a more specialist job – at least waht I think …
——– Original-Nachricht ——–
> Datum: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:09:59 +0000
> Von: Lisa Cummins
> An: 483245a@cosford.raf.mod.uk
> CC: Channel Swimmers
> Betreff: Re: [Channel Group] Re: Cost of Pilots
> Hi all,
>
> Since my blog was mentioned in the original post I figured that I’d add in
> my two cents!
>
> Yes, I handed Lance £3,000 at the start of my swim, having already paid
> the
> deposit of £1,000. And I agree that it is a lot of money. It’s one of the
> reasons that I need to put a three-way attempt off for a couple of years
> if
> I am going to attempt it-I just can’t afford it for the moment.
>
> BUT…..
>
> I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Lance and his crew earned every
> penny of that £4,000 on my swim. He had a really hard job getting me back
> to
> England, you can see that from a glance at my Channel chart. As is known
> to
> happen in the Channel, the tides didn’t do what they should have, and I’m
> sure that my increasingly painful shoulder and decreasing speed didn’t
> help
> matters either. Without Lance’s experience, expertise and determination to
> give me every chance possible of getting there, I wouldn’t have made a
> two-way. And I really appreciate all that effort he put in, he knows that.
>
> £2,000 for a solo swim might seem like a lot of money. But this is
> considered to be the “Everest of open-water swimming”. It’s a lifelong
> dream
> for so many people. For me anyway, the money that I paid was worth it to
> realise my dream.
>
> Happy swimming,
> Lisa
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:00 AM, AndyW
> wrote:
>
> > Having been a swimmer and crew for other swimmers, I have seen the
> > hard work and dedication our pilots put into the task of getting us to
> > France. Their efforts go beyond mere “doing a job”, many an attempt
> > would have been unsucessful if that were the case. Yes £2000 is a lot
> > of money, but ask any serious triathlete how much they paid for their
> > bike! That £2000 will change your life forever and come July, if the
> > weather Gods permit, I will willing part with the cash to reach
> > France.
> >
> > Andy W
> >
> > On Mar 24, 9:49 am, Tom Burke wrote:
> > > I know this is more than a little unrelated but an 8 hour fishing
> > charter
> > > can cost around £300 (roughly).
> > >
> > > I also know that channel pilots have a completely different job and
> set
> > of
> > > responsibilities and therefore a hike in price is a must.
> > >
> > > Also channel pilots don’t have a set time to charter to and can be out
> > for
> > > any amount of time (22 hours etc). So I would guess that you must
> factor
> > > that in.
> > >
> > > So they could be out for 24 hours which is 3 times the fishing charter
> > > mentioned above which equals £900. I guess there’s different
> insurance
> > costs
> > > which hike their price, at least 3 x the extra fuel required for the
> trip
> > > and fees for being a channel pilot?
> > >
> > > So I can see how the price goes up and think it is still expensive.
> But
> > then
> > > I think I’m also paying for years of experience getting swimmers
> across
> > the
> > > channel and how do you put a price on that?
> > >
> > > I think you were lucky to get a well priced boat across Bristol and if
> it
> > > were to get as popular as channel swimming with similar regulatory
> bodies
> > > you’d probably see a price increase.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > > On 24 March 2010 08:39, geth jones wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > hi guys…
> > > > it seems to be a taboo subject on this group,discussing pilots fees,
> or
> > > > even being critical of one’s pilot.
> > > > I remember an australian swimmer being critical of her pilot not so
> > long
> > > > back on this forum and was totally ridiculed for it.I must admit,my
> > reaction
> > > > was to smile, and “possibly” to agree with the crowd;BUT, i think we
> > all
> > > > forget that human error is part of life, and not even pilots are
> exempt
> > from
> > > > makeing an occasional mistake, but because we HAVE to put our whole
> > trust in
> > > > them,as they are directing the swim, sometimes theyre mistakes go un
> > > > noticed, while we as the swimmers take the whole responsibility of a
> > failed
> > > > swim.
> > > > The reason i mention this lady’s attempt was cause it was a double,
> and
> > on
> > > > reading lisa cummins blog,i read that she had to hand over her
> balance
> > for
> > > > her swim which was £3000
> > > > Hang on a minute£3000!!! the balance!! how much was the total
> swim????
> > for
> > > > possibly 2-3days work…..
> > > > i must admit ive long thought that£2000 plus, for a one way with
> > £400approx
> > > > for fees on top, to be a big chunk of money……but maybe im
> wrong..
> > >
> > > > I had a meeting the night before last with the pilot i used last
> year
> > for
> > > > my swim in the Bristol channel, a swim of 23 N miles(so similar
> > distance to
> > > > the english channel,maybe a little bit more…)he charged me last
> year
> > £250,
> > > > because it was a new swim,and the welsh swimming association
> provided
> > me
> > > > with an GB open water referee as a observer-No Fee!!
> > > > We discussed as the swim was over 2 days it would only be fair for
> him
> > to
> > > > charge £500 in future for this service, and £250 for piloting the
> > shorter
> > > > route from penarth across which is 8.5N miles,and £500 for a 2
> > way….he did
> > > > ask me how much the pilots charged in the english channel…..should
> > have
> > > > had a swear box at hand for that!!; i then quoted what a pilot had
> said
> > on
> > > > this forum not so long ago that its works out as low as £150 in
> some
> > cases!!
> > > > (2 swear boxes needed after that one! lol)
> > >
> > > > So, what i would like to know, is how much other swims cost..
> > > > Sal or Charlie what you charge in jersey for a around island swim,
> > > > andjersey france crossing??
> > > > El sharko,how much is the catalina crossing??
> > > > anybody down there in the southern hemisphere-whats the cost of a
> cook
> > > > straight crossing??
> > > > ned, how much is the MIMS swim?? (although in fairness, i believe
> > kayaks
> > > > are used there..)
> > >
> > > > As i said earlier i may be wrong in my assumption, but as you can
> > clearly
> > > > see there is a big diference in fees, between the english channel
> and a
> > > > similar swim in the bristol channel…
> > > > So, are we being charged to much in the English channel??
> > > > geth
> > >
> > > > —
> > > > To email the group: Email Channel_Swimmers@googlegroups.com
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group: Email to
> > > > Channel_Swimmers-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > > > The Group Homepage for past messages:
> > > >http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Channel_Swimmers
> > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to channel_swimmers+
> > > > unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words
> > “REMOVE
> > > > ME” as the subject.- Hide quoted text –
> > >
> > > – Show quoted text –
> >
Copyright © 2010 by Steven Munatones